Dick and Dom and Tiswas

[psyduck]

I recently went to a football match, and it was comparing tv shows amongst other things, back then and now.
The inevitable came up, Dick and Dom and Tiswas which was better and it said a draw. I had to watch Dick and Dom. As a loyal fan of Tiswas, I have to say, Tiswas is still the best. Dick and Dom is good, but they are trying to follow Tiswas. When Tiswas hit its prime, political correctness and various other things were not so important, things like pulling kids by the ears, i dont think you would get away with, I saw an episode recently involving a gollywog. Silly things like that would be frowned upon today. Yes, I agree there is some anarchy to Dick and Dom but not the same as Tiswas. I showed a friend an episode from 1979, a long time ago and she loved it, but could not believe what they got away with.
I think this shows that Dick and Dom or anyone for that matter has a long way to go to match Tiswas. One thing about Tiswas, it was not politically correct, it did not have to be. Can that be said about children's shows today ?

[Peter Thomas]

I recently went to a football match, and it was comparing tv shows amongst other things, back then and now.

Really? I thought those things were to see which football team was better than the other, by the process of scoring more goals than their opponents, over two time periods of forty-five minutes, judged by an appointed league referee. Things must have changed since I last went to one.

Is Newsnight still top of the league, and do you favour Flog It or Cash In The Attic in the cup final? Oh, and can Later With Jools Holland escape relegation?

The inevitable came up, Dick and Dom and Tiswas which was better and it said a draw.

A close one. I hear Richard McCourt is bloody good on penalty kicks.

I had to watch Dick and Dom. As a loyal fan of Tiswas, I have to say, Tiswas is still the best. Dick and Dom is good, but they are trying to follow Tiswas.

No bad thing, as long as they acknowledge it (and they have). Okay, Mr Edmonds, tell us what all that gunge was about on your House Party...

When Tiswas hit its prime, political correctness and various other things were not so important, things like pulling kids by the ears, i dont think you would get away with,

They never really pulled the kids by their ears.

I saw an episode recently involving a gollywog. Silly things like that would be frowned upon today. Yes, I agree there is some anarchy to Dick and Dom but not the same as Tiswas. I showed a friend an episode from 1979, a long time ago and she loved it, but could not believe what they got away with.

I dunno. Dick And Dom may have been slapped on the wrists for the erection-based innuendo t-shirt, but they still have had 'The Turtle's Head' and 'Creamy Muck Muck'. Just hearing those terms makes me snigger like an immature schoolkid.

I think this shows that Dick and Dom or anyone for that matter has a long way to go to match Tiswas.

Depends in what context. Dick And Dom are the ratings winners in the channel wars, which Tiswas didn't win when Sw*p Sh*p was around.

One thing about Tiswas, it was not politically correct, it did not have to be. Can that be said about children's shows today ?

I'll raise you "He may be a poof, but he's our poof" - a quote from modern Grange Hill (pupil defending a homosexual teacher).

Oh, and here's something really stupidly politically correct...

A very very tenous connection I have to Saturday morning TV is this, about 4 or 5 years ago in a pub with a then-girlfriend...

Ros: "Do you remember Going Live?"
Me: "Oh yes, definitely."
Ros: "Do you remember Trevor and Simon from that?"
Me: "Oh yeah, they were quite funny on that, then there was that one series where they were replaced with some other guys"
Ros: "Ball and Hickish"
Me: "Was that their names? All I can remember is them being really crap and unfunny."
Ros: "Er, I was going to tell you that one of them is my cousin."
Me: "Oh. Er. Sorry."

...turns out that Ball and Hickish did have a funny routine where they'd be dressed up as schoolgirls, and chase whatever boyband was currently guesting, through the studio, parodying the way teenaged girls lust after hair-gelled androgynous talent-vacuum muppets (aka boybands).

The management behind the show told them to stop doing it (which they did), because they reckoned it was attacking their own viewers.

Tsk. The only funny thing they ever did, and the producers told them to stop.

[psyduck]

Simple answer, I have had some broadcasting experience. If it was allowed and if you got permission from former stars, would Tiswas be able to be done exactly as it was back then. Obviously they would need more up to date jokes and Cartoons, apart from that, if you broadcast Tiswas exactly the same as when Chris was around, would you get away with it today.
Answer : I doubt it, someone would complain

[Peter Thomas]

Simple answer, I have had some broadcasting experience.

I've used walkie-talkies too.

BTW, what was the simple question?

If it was allowed and if you got permission from former stars, would Tiswas be able to be done exactly as it was back then. Obviously they would need more up to date jokes and Cartoons, apart from that, if you broadcast Tiswas exactly the same as when Chris was around, would you get away with it today.
Answer : I doubt it, someone would complain

Complain about what? Jokes and gunge have been part of Saturday morning TV for decades, long after Tiswas has happened.

Live and Kicking had Mel B shout out "w**ker" and very little complaints occured.
Ministry Of Mayhem last year had Holly's top expose a little bit more of her than expected. It's still on air.
Going Live - the Matt Bianco and Five Star phone-ins, 'nuff said!
SM:TV had some chavvy girls in the audience yelling four-letter words and "lesbian" at Mel C. Still stayed on air.

Yes, there was some culture/racial-based humour in Tiswas. Lenny's skin colour was the reference for a few jokes but not in a harsh 'anti-black' way. Irish jokes were made (usually by Irish comedian Frank Carson - never affected my view of the Irish, even at age 5 I knew not to generalize an entire nation based on a comedy stereotype). But there were like 1% the content of Tiswas. They wouldn't occur nowadays, and if you repeated Tiswas without them, hardly anyone would notice (except us anoraks).

[psyduck]

Never underestimate the power of political correctness. Although I am a big OTT fan and morally opposed to political correctness, I admit calling Lenny a six foot nig nog, was probably wrong. I say probably, as in another episode it showed a clip of Lenny pretending to be David Bellamy kneelling in the ice and saying its cold enough to freeze the goolies off a six foot nig nog.
In my opinion, political correctness exists to spoil peoples fun, I cannot prove it, but I am sure with some of the things that get complained about, there is someone sitting in front of tv, watching programmes they dont particularly like just to find things to complain about.
Children running around, virtually uncontrolled, thinking back to an episode of Tiswas where they had some children on singing and a small child kept interupting Chris as he tried to announce. Children encouraged to behave as they want.
I think some people would get a surprise at just how many complaints would surface from that little thing. I mean anyone remember Mary Whitehouse, she complained for the sake of complaining, although I must admit Lenny did a good impersonation of Mr Mary Whitehouse

[Peter Thomas]

Never underestimate the power of political correctness. Although I am a big OTT fan and morally opposed to political correctness, I admit calling Lenny a six foot nig nog, was probably wrong.

Er, can we have some context please? I hope you're referring to the sketch where Chris Tarrant played a moronic racist hooligan, where he said that term to Lenny's character. Racism wasn't presented in a positive light, certainly not on Tiswas, nor on OTT.

I say probably, as in another episode it showed a clip of Lenny pretending to be David Bellamy kneelling in the ice and saying its cold enough to freeze the goolies off a six foot nig nog.

In my opinion, political correctness exists to spoil peoples fun, I cannot prove it, but I am sure with some of the things that get complained about, there is someone sitting in front of tv, watching programmes they dont particularly like just to find things to complain about.

Yes. See http://www.repentuk.com and http://www.mediawatchuk.org

Children running around, virtually uncontrolled, thinking back to an episode of Tiswas where they had some children on singing and a small child kept interupting Chris as he tried to announce. Children encouraged to behave as they want.

That's not anti-PC. That's simply a kids show.

I think some people would get a surprise at just how many complaints would surface from that little thing. I mean anyone remember Mary Whitehouse, she complained for the sake of complaining, although I must admit Lenny did a good impersonation of Mr Mary Whitehouse

A friend of mine was at uni with a friend who got "heavily acquainted" with the grand-daughter of Mary 'I want Jackanory banned' Whitehouse. Apparently, her precious grand-daughter was "a right goer". I love karma.

[psyduck]

Two Times I heard lenny referred to as a six foot nig nog.
One was at the start of episode 4 (tennis 82) when Lenny got grenades from his bag, you can just hear Chris referring to his character as a six foot nig nog.
Second one, was i think about episode 12 when they said about Lenny always getting things right first time, and they did an outtake of him as David Bellamy and he was kneeling in the snow and he himself said "its cold enough to freeze the goolies off a six foot nig nog.
I had no idea Mary Whitehouses daughter was a right goer, watching Tiswas as a child, my brother (older than me) referred to Sally as a right Goer.
Maybe if i had been old enough to understand the term, I would have agreed, actually looking back, he may have been right.
I wonder why Sally never followed Chris to OTT, if she had taken her top off, that would have sent the ratings through the roof.
She appeared in Stayback, which surprised me that there was no nudity, if anything THEME wise it was more adult that OTT

[Peter Thomas]

Two Times I heard lenny referred to as a six foot nig nog.
One was at the start of episode 4 (tennis 82) when Lenny got grenades from his bag, you can just hear Chris referring to his character as a six foot nig nog.

I believe that instance is Chris acting as an stereotyped upper class character, hence the racism used (with irony). I should really get out the DVDs and check, I know.

Second one, was i think about episode 12 when they said about Lenny always getting things right first time, and they did an outtake of him as David Bellamy and he was kneeling in the snow and he himself said "its cold enough to freeze the goolies off a six foot nig nog.

That's probably from the "it's okay if a black man uses racist terms against himself" school of thought. Which can and does work (See the film Blazing Saddles - pure genius!)

I had no idea Mary Whitehouses daughter was a right goer, watching Tiswas as a child, my brother (older than me) referred to Sally as a right Goer.

Er, we mean the term as in "slapper", rather than merely "good looking".

Maybe if i had been old enough to understand the term, I would have agreed, actually looking back, he may have been right.
I wonder why Sally never followed Chris to OTT, if she had taken her top off, that would have sent the ratings through the roof.

Er, do you know that her husband is registered on this very forum, and Sally herself pays the occasional visit here?

She appeared in Stayback, which surprised me that there was no nudity, if anything THEME wise it was more adult that OTT

Nudity isn't everything. I'd rather hear playground fart jokes than see flabby bottoms.

[psyduck]

The first reference, was Chris pretending to be a tennis umpire.
I had no idea Sally visited this forum, sorry if I caused offence, although I must admit I did like her. Someone else I liked was Collette Hiller, I think that is how you spell it, from the first episode of OTT, she did look good in that bikin (Stacy Brown got two). With reference to Mary Whitehouse's daughter, I must admit I am surprised Mary would allow such foul acts to go on.
I have to say though, I would be interested if anyone has a photo of her (website link, that sort of thing)
On an unrelated issue, does anyone know why Tiswas actually got cancelled in the end. I did hear, although I dont know if it is true, that Stayback was not cancelled, Chris decided he fancied heading into radio, can anyone confirm or deny this.

[Spike Nesmith]

I wonder why Sally never followed Chris to OTT

As I understand it, and those more in the know can correct me on this one if I'm incorrect, she was under contract to do one more series of Tiswas. Didn't I read on this here forum that she turned up somewhere in an episode of Stayback?

[staplingmachine]

I wonder why Sally never followed Chris to OTT

As I understand it, and those more in the know can correct me on this one if I'm incorrect, she was under contract to do one more series of Tiswas. Didn't I read on this here forum that she turned up somewhere in an episode of Stayback?

Yes, that all sounds correct to me, and yes she did appear in an episode of Stayback.

I went to see The Four Bucketeers at Wimbledon Theatre in the summer of 1981, well after Chris Tarrant's final Tiswas. Nice to see Sally and the rest of the gang together on stage, even while they were both working on different versions of Tiswas. They even announced OTT from the stage, but not by name - I think Chris just announced it as the adult version of Tiswas.

Andrew

[Peter Thomas]

I went to see The Four Bucketeers at Wimbledon Theatre in the summer of 1981, well after Chris Tarrant's final Tiswas. Nice to see Sally and the rest of the gang together on stage, even while they were both working on different versions of Tiswas. They even announced OTT from the stage, but not by name - I think Chris just announced it as the adult version of Tiswas.

Yeah, he did the same in his final edition of Tiswas (28/03/81), and even mentioned the changes to Tiswas in its next series, just saying "there'll be some new faces" (maybe the presenters weren't confirmed at that point).

I would love to know what Chris thought of the final series of Tiswas, that's if he watched it of course.

[Lee Bannister]

It would indeed be interesting to see what Chris and 'his' team thought of Gordon/Den/Foggy's team...

They would obviously have known each other throughout the whole of that 81/82 period. They probably used the same studio ... (if not, the other studios are only 5-10 feet away from each other across a small corridor), they prepared in the same building... knowing CT's & Gordon's penchant for a nice relaxing drink - they may possibly have socialised together as well.

John Gorman was credited with writing/additional material on the last series of Tiswas... so perhaps they may all have exchanged ideas on occasion, or perhaps there may have been more crossover than we think. Remember ATV and then Central, by all accounts, was quite a small close knit community at this time. Less so after this crossver period.

My guess is that the Tiswas team watched OTT, possibly enviously - and the OTT team knew of, but didn't really watch, what was happening on Tiswas.

[Peter Thomas]

It would indeed be interesting to see what Chris and 'his' team thought of Gordon/Den/Foggy's team...

I wonder if Neunie has quizzed Chris on the subject... I know Sally doesn't think much of the final series!

They would obviously have known each other throughout the whole of that 81/82 period. They probably used the same studio ... (if not, the other studios are only 5-10 feet away from each other across a small corridor),

I really doubt it was the same studio. The OTT studio had fixed seating and seemed much larger (quite a few camera shots from up above which show this very well). It really does resemble the big studio Tiswas 'borrowed' for its 03/01/83 edition.

they prepared in the same building... knowing CT's & Gordon's penchant for a nice relaxing drink - they may possibly have socialised together as well.

Gordon's Gin, eh?

If they socialised together, they should have passed on advice to the new team! Only Den got the idea of what Tiswas was supposed to be about (a presenter I regard as being more than good enough for the Tarrant era, if time travel was possible!).

John Gorman was credited with writing/additional material on the last series of Tiswas... so perhaps they may all have exchanged ideas on occasion, or perhaps there may have been more crossover than we think. Remember ATV and then Central, by all accounts, was quite a small close knit community at this time. Less so after this crossver period.

I think I may pay attention to that final Tarrant edition again. It's clear that it's Chris' last Tiswas, but did they mention the disappearance of Lenny, John and Bob much? I know that come September 81, the new changes surprised me!

My guess is that the Tiswas team watched OTT, possibly enviously - and the OTT team knew of, but didn't really watch, what was happening on Tiswas.

Well, the two never really acknowledged each other, apart from a few brief moments. Chris Tarrant quickly described the OTT project on his final Tiswas (28/03/81) as being an adult version of the show. Nowhere in the final series editions I've seen (and I've seen about half of 'em) have I heard any mention of OTT at all.

OTT itself mentions the name Tiswas now and again, usually in the context of Chris saying "when we did Tiswas...", and would make a point of comparing the next feature with something people knew from Tiswas. (Viewer's letters for example.) They certainly never referenced the fact Tiswas was still going. It was as if both the final series of Tiswas, and OTT, weren't happening around the same time. Amazing to think there was no cross-promotion, although, given the content of OTT (naked balloon dancers), it's not too surprising.

[Spike Nesmith]

I think because the tone of it changed in the last series. With Tarrant it was a kids show with hidden adult undertones. In the final series, it's a basically kids show. That sly nod and wink to the grown-ups seems to have gone completely.